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051

Case 051Market view and security pitchHard

A client asks your view on two stocks he holds: Rudravarna Steel at 7 times earnings earned at a peak margin, and Kalpavadi Software at 35 times earnings growing 18% a year. Which would you trim, and why?

Northern TrustChicago · 2022

1The situation

Your client, a retired engineer with a Rs 3 crore portfolio, holds Rs 45 lakh of Rudravarna Steel and Rs 35 lakh of Kalpavadi Software. Rudravarna trades at Rs 357. Revenue is Rs 400 a share, and this year its EBITDA margin is 25%, the highest in a decade; its ten-year average is 15% and the range runs from 8% to 26%. Depreciation is Rs 20 a share, interest Rs 12, tax 25%. That gives earnings of Rs 51 a share, so it screens at 7.0 times earnings.

Kalpavadi trades at Rs 1,400 on earnings of Rs 40 a share, 35 times, with a margin that has sat near 24% for eight years and earnings growing about 18% a year. The client says steel is cheap and software is expensive, and asks which one you would cut.

2Your task

Which position would you trim first, and what numbers support that view?

Quick check

Before any maths: what is Rudravarna's P/E on its ten-year average margin?

Worked solution

Try it on paper, then open one step at a time.

30-second answerThe answer to give first

Trim Rudravarna Steel first. Its 7x is measured on a peak margin; at its ten-year average margin earnings fall 59% to Rs 21 and the true multiple is 17.0x. If the cycle turns the stock can lose about 41%. Kalpavadi's 35x is demanding but rests on a stable margin; if growth slows the damage is nearer 20%. Keep Kalpavadi, sized so a derating is survivable.

Step 1Why is a low P/E on peak earnings not cheap?

Think of a mango seller who made a fortune in a season when the crop failed everywhere else. Valuing his stall on that one season's profit makes it look like a bargain; the next normal season tells you what it really earns. Steel is the same. For a cyclicalA business whose profits rise and fall with the economic or commodity cycle rather than growing steadily. business, a low multiple on peak earnings is usually the market pricing the fall that has not happened yet. Rebuild Rudravarna's earnings at its ten-year average margin of 15%: EBITDA of Rs 60 a share, less Rs 20 of depreciation and Rs 12 of interest, leaves Rs 28 before tax and Rs 21 after.

Notice the size of the drop. The margin falls by 40%, from 25% to 15%, but earnings fall 58.8%, from Rs 51 to Rs 21. Fixed costs, here depreciation and interest, do not fall with the margin, so earnings swing harder than revenue or margin. That operating leverageThe way fixed costs make profit move by a larger percentage than sales or margin. is why the headline 7x hides a normal-earnings multiple of 17.0x.

Price each stock on normal earnings, not on this year'sRudravarna Steel, Rs 357Earnings per share, RsP/EToday, 25% margin51.07.0x10-yr avg, 15% margin21.017.0x7x is really 17x on normal earningsKalpavadi Software, Rs 1,400Earnings per share, RsP/EToday, stable margin40.035.0xYear 3 at 18% growth65.721.3x35x is 21x if the growth arrives
Rudravarna Steel looks like 7.0 times earnings at today's 25% margin but is 17.0 times its Rs 21 of earnings at the 15% ten-year average, while Kalpavadi Software is 35 times today and 21.3 times its earnings three years out if 18% growth continues.
Step 2Is 35 times earnings too much for Kalpavadi?

A high multiple is a bet on future earnings, so test the growth rather than the multiple. At 18% a year Kalpavadi's earnings reach Rs 65.7 in three years, and Rs 1,400 is 21.3x that. The question for a growth stock is how far it falls if growth disappoints, and the stable 24% margin means the earnings base is real, not borrowed from a cycle. The honest limit: if growth slows to 12% and the market re-rates it to 25x, next year's earnings of Rs 44.8 are worth Rs 1,120, a fall of 20%. That is a real loss, but not a collapse.

Rudravarna, per share, RsTrough, 8%Average, 15%Today, 25%
Revenue400400400
EBITDA3260100
Depreciation and interest(32)(32)(32)
Tax at 25%0(7)(17)
Earnings per share02151
P/E at Rs 357no earnings17.0x7.0x
Rudravarna earns Rs 51 a share at today's 25% margin, Rs 21 at its 15% average and nothing at its 8% trough, because Rs 32 of depreciation and interest does not shrink with the margin; the same Rs 357 is 7.0x or 17.0x depending on which year you believe.
Step 3What does each stock lose if its story breaks?

Put the two downside cases side by side, because the client's real question is which position can hurt him more. If the steel cycle turns and the market pays a normal 10x on normal earnings, Rudravarna falls to Rs 210, a loss of 41.2%, twice Kalpavadi's downside. On Rs 45 lakh that is about Rs 18.5 lakh. Kalpavadi's slower-growth case costs 20% of Rs 35 lakh, Rs 7.0 lakh. The upside is lopsided the other way: steel at best holds its price for another good year, while Kalpavadi delivering its growth at an unchanged multiple rises 18%.

What each stock does if its story breaks, and if it holdsRudravarna: cycle turnsEPS back to 21, valued at 10x-41.2%Kalpavadi: growth slowsEPS 44.8, valued at 25x-20.0%Rudravarna: peak lasts a yearEPS 51 again, still 7x0.0%Kalpavadi: 18% deliveredEPS 47.2, still 35x+18.0%no change
If each story breaks, Rudravarna falls 41.2% and Kalpavadi 20.0%; if each holds, Rudravarna is flat while Kalpavadi gains 18.0%, so the cheap-looking stock carries the larger downside and the smaller upside.

Close the pitch the way a client can use it. The view is to trim Rudravarna first, perhaps by half, and keep Kalpavadi at a size where a 20% derating is a nuisance rather than a problem. Say the limit out loud: nobody knows when the steel cycle turns, and if margins stay high for two more years the trim will look early. That is a price the client pays for not owning a peak-earnings stock at full size.

Where candidates lose it

The usual loss is agreeing with the client: 7x is cheap, 35x is expensive, trim the software. That reads the multiple without asking which year's earnings sit under it, and it is the exact error the interviewer planted by telling you the margin is a ten-year high.

The second is dismissing Kalpavadi's multiple without testing it. Candidates who say 35x is too high but never compute what happens if growth slows sound opinionated rather than analytical. Give both downside numbers.

What the interviewer asks next

  • Rudravarna's margin is at its ten-year low instead. Does your view flip?
  • How would you size Kalpavadi inside a Rs 3 crore portfolio?
  • What single number would you ask the steel company's management for?
  • How does the client's tax cost on each position change the order of trimming?

Asked at Northern Trust, Private Wealth Management, Chicago, 2022 (Wall Street Oasis): no technicals but was asked about my view on some stocks and I gave a brief pitch

← Case 050A traditional endowment policy asks Rs 5 lakh a year for 10 years and promises Rs 70 lakh at year 20, sold as a tax-free return. Work out its internal rate of return and compare term cover plus a fund.Case 052 →Two wealth desks merge: Rs 1,200 crore of assets earning 0.9% and Rs 800 crore earning 0.7%. If 20% of the smaller desk's clients leave, what is the combined revenue, and what was each lost client worth?

Company names and figures are illustrative.

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